FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Joan Massagué]

Pakistan mineral experts out there, help please! Would you know the locality of this type of apatite from the Northern Areas, in Pakistan? I suspect that it is from Alchuri, but I am not sure. The exact locality information got lost along the way, but I liked the specimen for its remarkable habit and I added it to my collection.

As can be seen in the photos, this is a cluster of three light-green, prismatic crystals to 4.3 cm in length, each unit being a contact twin itself, and each unit bearing “faden” stress marks. The crystals are slightly curved outward (this is most noticeable in the right-side crystal in photo 2). On some spots there is a dark coating of what looks like chlorite. All these signs suggest to me that this apatite is from an alpine formation. The two main alpine formations in the Northern Areas are the Alchuri/Hachupa area and the Tormiq valley, as far as I know. Apatite is relatively abundant in Alchuri. However, there is nothing on Mindat like this piece.

Any clues or comments would be much appreciated!

[Jordi Fabre]

According what the Pakistani dealers say, this could be from Tormiq, but as you know better than many people, their localities infos are, at least, dubious...;-)

[Carles Millan]

[Joan Massagué]

Jordi, Carles,

Thank you both for your replies, and for the time spent surfing the web, Carles. The habit of these crystals is not quite the same, but I'm glad that all the indications continue to point at Tormiq or Alchuri as the most likely locality. In fact, although these two localities are tens of Km apart, sometimes they are indiscriminately given as the source of epidote specimens and other minerals that look very much as coming from the same find. By the time specimens reach the markets in Peshawar, the given locality –Tormiq versus Alchuri– is a word-of-mouth affair and the actual locality can be difficult if not impossible to trace. Let's hope that someone else can shed more light.

Joan

[Jesse Fisher]

The apatite definitely looks to be from one of the alpine metamorphic localities, rather than the more common granitic pegmatites in the region. Alchuri and Tormiq are the most prolific localities for the alpine minerals, so it is highly likely that your specimen came from one or the other. I would recommend contacting Dudley Blauwet (Mountain Minerals International) for his opinion. He has traveled extensively through Northern Pakistan for over 25 years and is meticulous with the location information of the specimens he gets there.

[Joan Massagué]

Jesse, good idea. I will try contacting Dudley, who indeed does venture into the upper Shigar. Thanks!

[Carles Millan]

And Herb Obodda as well...

[Peter]

The area Tormiq/Alchuri it certainly looks like.

Tormiq and Alchuri and other names on the East side of the Shigar valley are names of the villages and specimens are labeled after Somewhich side of the ridge they were dug out, but geologically same area.

I did not see exactly this type from the alpine clefts there but many varieties.
Dudley Blauwet has travelled very extensively here and only by speaking to reliable miners, and visiting the localities one can get certain information. He has perhaps seen exactly this material.

Ones I was shown one specimen and the pakistani dealer gave me one location which was 10 km off the real site only to disguise origin. I was laughing and simply told him, no it is from X Mine. Many times I have seen specimens with 150 km incorrect locality as well for the same reason.
If you do not have original information, I always write assumed locality in brackets, as to keep clear info.

[Carles Millan]

[Peter]

Hi Carles

Thanks for your good map! You are correct.
Distance is long and the Haramosh Ridge is inbetween.
Locations usually referred to as Haramosh is w of Tormiq although I am sure there are also good veins to the east.
To the west of Tormiq is the huge uplift ( Nanga Parbat/Haramosh) and even on its westact tern con side (west of Sassi) are similar mineralizations but fewer.
I did not go up the Tormiq Valley valley myself.
You even have Raikot valley on your map which most people have no idea of.
There was one small incredibly beautiful di and tri hexagonal blue blue aquamarine on matrix found there a few years ago.

I am sure D Blauwet has been up the Tormiq valley himself and he has seen much more lots of minerals from here than I have.

[Peter]

Carl. Next time we are in Barcelona I should let you know.
Peter

[Jason]

I sent a couple of your pics, Joan, to a few of my dudes in Peshawar to see what they thought about the location and this is the responses i got...
1)"Its from a Shigger mine also available at Astic Nala, near Shigger mine Gilgit/Pakistan"
2)"The apatite photos you sent are to the best of my knowledge are of Turmik mine in Skardoo. Black tourmaline, Albaite, quartz and sphene and some other minerals are also found in the same mine"
Now both of them run shops in namak mandi but that doesn't make to much a difference..doesn't really narrow it down to much..LOL..oh well i tried..still waiting to hear back from another one..he is the guy that travels to most of the locations he gets his Pak mins. from..

[Joan Massagué]

Amethystguy,

I am very grateful for the trouble that you took to circulate these photos among dealers in Pakistan. I agree that their input doesn't really favor one locality over the other, Tormiq versus Alchuri/Hachupa. I have never heard of "Astic Nala", but I suspect your source is referring to Stak Nala, which is long famous for its multicolored tourmalines in albite, its magnificent hambergite twins, and the occasional bright green fluorite. However, Stak Nala is not a prominent source of apatite, and I believe is mostly a pegmatitic formation, not an alpine one. The Stak valley is not a tributary of the Shigar valley anyway. So this lead is not a very compelling.

The second reply you received refers to Tormiq, which is one of our two likely sources. However, "Turmik mine in Skardoo" gives me some pause in terms of ruling out Alchuri as the source. Alchuri is actually closer to Skardu than is Tormiq. Bottom line, we remain at "Tormiq or Alchuri" as the locality! There's always hope that Dudley will shed some light into this. I will take the piece to show him at the next show.

Thanks!

Joan

[Jason]

yep..like a few had said once it gets to market then it's anybody guess except the person who extracted it..let us know what you find out

[Joan Massagué]

I just heard from Dudley Blauwet, who kindly replied to my email query from Pakistan, after descending from the mountains there. Dudley states that the green apatite from Pakistan has occurred at Niaslo, in the Basha Valley, at an alpine cleft-type deposit. He does not recall having seen any apatite of that color from either Alchuri or Tormiq.

(Thank you Dudley! Very few would have you tenacity and dedication to venture into those areas, at this time of year, and in these days of turmoil).

Note: Niaslo is located half-way up the Basha valley, as the Shigar valley splits into the Basha and Braldu valleys).