FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[John S. White]

One of the purposes of the article was to open up a dialogue around this subject, and that seems to have been successful, judging from the response to the article on this Forum, something that really could not have occurred without the Forum. I am not surprised that we appear to have missed at least one viable candidate for inclusion as I am inclined to agree with Les that the Bolivian vivianites certainly satisfy the requirements for inclusion. The same may be said for ilvaites from China, they do indeed appear to be worthy and I have no idea how we missed them. I have already commented on the copper pseudomorphs after cuprite, I will only add that perhaps they were missed because they are pseudomorphs and perhaps we never even considered including a pseudomorph, I have no idea.

[GneissWare]

John,
As Les said, its a moving target, and no matter what you list, new things are always appearing, and old finds are disappearing. These kinds of lists are also very much products of their time--what may interest some folks today, like the Huanggang material, may be largely discounted later.

Thanks for taking a crack at putting any kind of list together!

[Jesse Fisher]

While I wouldn't consider myself a connoisseur of the species, it seems to me that the best of the vanadinites that have been coming from Mibladen, Morocco for the last I don't know how many years are much better (and more numerous) than from other past occurrences. I know other good vanadinites have come from Arizona, so perhaps Les will have something to say about this.

Cheers!

[alfredo]

While speaking of Rubtsovskoe and Huanggang, they have also set new standards for marshite and borcarite respectively.

[bob kerr]

not to speak for john/tom but the Moroccan vanadinites as well as the Tasmanian crocoites were covered in Bancrft's book so they were not included in their article.

concerning the bolivian vivianites - that I immediately fell in love with when I first saw them; for those of us who live in high humidity areas (like pretty much the entire east coast) learn from the voice of experience. these are simply NOT stable - especially the matrix if it has any pyrite in it - which most do.

first the pyrite will decrepit forming some sulfuric acid along the way then the vivianite will start to peal off or split in layers. I watched my wonderful - and expensive - specimen effectively disappear before my very eyes.

should a specimen that's unstable be included here? I would vote no but others who've bought these that I know from AZ have not seen the decomposition.

yet another issue to consider on this challenging list.

bob

[Jesse Fisher]

I have looked through the original book and am unable to find a vanadinite (from anywhere) in it.

[alfredo]

Of course ALL vivianites are unstable in the presence of light or heat, whether or not from Bolivia, and whether or not associated with pyrite. I recommend keeping them in a cool dark place, wherever they are from. Sometimes one can get Bolivian ones sitting on siderite or wavellite rather than pyrite, so that helps with the acidity problem.

[Jordi Fabre]

[Peter Megaw]

So, does accessibility to a collector matter?

I would argue that the Gypsum (var. selenite...sensu strictu) from the Cave of the Giants at Naica as another example of completely resetting the bar...and although they are probably both at least somewhat unstable if removed from the cave, we will never know since they are virtually impossible to remove given their sheer size. I believe Bancroft mentioned the Cave of the Swords in the original...but these render the CoS crystals insignificant.

I also think the cassiterites and scheelites from Pingwu, China are worthy candidates for NSE.

[bob kerr]

[bob kerr]

I note in the MR article that "new species from a single find" like olmiite are not included. i guess I would argue that they should be included as this find "sets the bar" from which all past and future finds should be compared - even if there was no previous finds.

And while i'm on Africa - I would also lobby for the sturmanites and ettringites from N'Chwaning as candidates for inclusion on the list.

bob

[Jordi Fabre]

[Les Presmyk]

The Moroccan vanadinites are the finest in the world. While Arizona localities may have held that title for decades, this has not been the case for the past 40 years. North Geronimo/Pure Potential is probably Arizona's best vanadinite locality, followed by the Old Yuma Mine and then the Apache Mine.

As we were doing research for our book, it was interesting to read the old ads for minerals. In 1890, when vanadinites were coming out of Arizona, and what were then world-class specimens, dealers were charging up to $30 for a cabinet sized piece. Visions of large and multiple crystals attractively arranged on matrix dance in one's head. And, pieces that surely would bring thousands of dollars today because after all, $30 was a month's salary back then. This is certainly the case with the Bisbee and Morenci azurites and malachites from this era. However, you will be disappointed to see one of these vanadinites today. They are still $30 specimens and only if someone wants the old label or a bit of history.

Sturmanite and Ettrigite are certainly contenders for the list. What about Chinese scheelites? The Chinese scheelites are certainly heads and shoulders above Korea (color and size), the Morro Vehlo gold mine in Brazil (size) and even Arizona, although this locality is the closest one in terms of size and color.

[Les Presmyk]

To Peter Megaw's recommendations, if vivianite and other minerals that are not stable in certain environments are disqualified, then there should also be criteria that limits the size to something that can be collected and placed in a display case. After all, the gypsum cave he refers to will someday be back under water and unavailable for viewing.

I also considered the cassiterites from China but they are not a significant step up, at least using the MR article criteria, from the great cassiterites from Araca, Bolivia.

[Susan Robinson]

I would think the antimony crystals found at the Lake George Antimony mine, Lake George, New Brunswick, Canada, would certainly qualify?