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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 5029
Location: Barcelona
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 Posted: Feb 13, 2015 10:49 Post subject: Tucson Show 2015 - A lovely comment |
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A lovely comment from Marie Huizing (Rocks & Minerals)
Thanks Marie!
Lovely time had by all
So many thanks for again making opening day of the Tucson Show a memorable one! Nothing like raising a glass with friends after a long and busy day. It's so easy for the "work" aspect of Tucson to overshadow the connecting spirit of camaraderie that keeps it all in perspective. Your party, now a grand tradition, reminds us to set aside the day's stresses and bask in the friendships of the mineral community.
Your hospitality is so appreciated,
Marie
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Jamison Brizendine
Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Northeast Ohio
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 11:08 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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| Matt_Zukowski wrote: | There is a row of quartz cases, two of which I photographed. The first case is amazing lab grown quartz. Fun to look at but it does bring up an issue. In pict 0936, they show a picture of a broken Guerrero and then the specimen after they have regrown the points back on. I have no problems with this so long as it is disclosed (and the fellow doing this told me that he always discloses and often laser etches his initials on pieces). But what if someone unscrupulous tries to pass off a broken but regrown specimen as natural? The tips on this piece are all wrong for a Guerrero, but what if someone did this to a clear quartz. I wonder if there is an easy way to tell the lab grown stuff from natural material. If not, are we going to have the same problems we have had with wire silver?
The second quartz case shows a systematic review of twinning laws. Interesting. |
Matt,
First I want to thank you, Gail Spann, Jean Sendero, and Jordi, for photographing the cases of both the hotel and main show. It gives me great pleasure to see all the effort that goes into these cases, exhibits and opportunity to really see some outstanding specimens.
As for the repaired amethyst, that piece belongs in my collection and for the sake of privacy, I am withholding the name of our club member who experiments with these quartz clusters. I knew about these synthetic quartz clusters since 2012, and I have kept the knowledge on the DL since then, but now that it has been exposed to the worldwide public, I will give you some basic background knowledge. By the way, Peter Megaw already knew about my "tampered" cluster since October 2014, so he had prior knowledge of the experiment before it was unveiled yesterday.
As for the history of this specimen, I purchased this specimen at a club auction when I was teaching high school in Indianapolis, Indiana in 2009. The piece was donated by Harris Precht, a very well-known and respected Midwest dealer. The label stated it was from Guerrero, Mexico and I don’t doubt for a second that it came from this locality.
I am confused by your statement that the “tips are wrong for Guerrero”. Are you talking about the specimen before or after it was repaired? My Mindat photo for this specimen prior to its “repair” job is # 614942. If you think it is from a different locality, let me know.
Flash forward to 2014, our club member who grows the hydrothermal quartz, wanted to experiment a case if he could try to “repair” broken specimens. I submitted two pieces, this specimen and a specimen from Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. The second specimen was rejected because there was too much matrix, which could damage the solution in the autoclave. The amethyst from Guerrero had very little matrix, and was the perfect candidate for the experiment. For those wondering how much I paid for the specimen prior to its “repair”, well…I certainly splurged on the specimen…it cost me five dollars. If the specimen dissolved I wouldn’t have shed a lot of tears…
I submitted the piece in May and got it back in October.
Before the specimen was subjected to the autoclave, there were roughly seven crystals that probably were terminated. Most likely those crystals broke after the pocket was subjected to some tectonic force. One of the terminations later had secondary quartz crystal growth (lower front right). The quartz during the secondary quartz crystallization was clear as there was no iron to produce the amethyst color. Various smaller quartz crystals also grew during this secondary pulse of crystallization. One of the pre-requisites of trying to regrow quartz was that the amethyst had to have as little matrix as possible as the matrix would have dissolved, and then those dissolved particles would have damaged the steel autoclave. This particular specimen had barely any matrix and therefore made a very good candidate to attempt the experiment.
After five months of being in an alkaline aqueous solution at high temperature and pressure (roughly 650 F [345 C] and 10,000 psi), all broken terminations were “regrown and re-healed”. These new growths were all clear points, because the silica solution in the autoclave was pure. A small portion of synthetic quartz had to be added to the matrix to keep it stable and from breaking apart. The purple color has quite diminished, but there is still a portion of the original color that remained. Any small crystals originally on the matrix were dissolved in the autoclave. You can see the contact between new and old crystal growths quite easily. The result is a beautiful objets d’art.
My biggest fear during the experiment was the dissolution of the entire amethyst cluster. The amethyst cluster was held together by a thin matrix of sandstone and smaller secondary quartz crystals had acted as a natural cement. In the autoclave the smaller crystals would have eventually dissolved over time (and did) and if the natural “cement” had dissolved, then the entire integrity of the cluster would have been broken. The cluster would have been a bunch of loose fragments in the autoclave had this occurred. Luckily, this did not occur and cluster remained intact.
To allay your fears about knowing the difference between synthetic vs natural quartz, you just have to look at the crystal very carefully. Often you can see the original seed quartz crystal in these clusters. It is also extremely difficult, laborious and requires intense knowledge, time and patience to regrow these clusters. Besides the waiting period, you need to maintain the correct temperatures and pressures, for months and even years at a time. If you make a mistake it can be catastrophic. Today, there are very few laboratories around the world that continue to even make synthetic quartz, because there are cheaper alternatives. So I doubt a lot of “copy cats” will pop up, but time will only tell.
On my labels I have made it a point to disclose that they are synthetic, including this cluster, because it is no longer a natural specimen, but a "Frankenstein Hybrid".
When I open my thread for my collection in March, I will provide photos of some of the other synthetic quartz clusters. For now, just enjoy them for what they are.
Once again Gail, Jordi, Jean and Matt, thank you for providing pictures and insights into this show! I wish I was there and hopefully, one day get a chance to meet all of you.
- Jamison Brizendine
| Mineral: | Quartz Var. Amethyst |
| Locality: | | Guerrero, Mexico |  |
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| Dimensions: | 5 x 5 x 3.75 (prior to it being tampered with) |
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| This is a reference specimen of Quartz from Guerrero, Mexico. Four of the five terminations have been broken off. On this specimen you can see that a second pulse of crystallization occurred on the specimen, giving one of the terminations a "psuedo-artichoke form". The specimen was submitted for a "regrowth" experiment in May of 2014. |
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Gail
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Texas, Lone Star State.
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 11:26 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Don't give up on me I'm just sooooooo busy! Lots of photos!
_________________
Minerals you say? Why yes, I'll take a dozen or so... |
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 14:09 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Jamison:
I would like to thank you for putting up that case. The synthetic quartz xtals are very cool, and it is interesting to see the results of the experimentation.
With regard to fakery, I would just like to say again that there is nothing in this case or anyone associated with it that suggests fakery to me. It’s just that this case shows improvement in the technology (at least to me), and that as this technology improves, the potential for fakery increases, and maybe we should stay tuned to this issue. Are there any other ways, besides evidence of a seed xtal, to tell this lab grown qtz from natural qtz?
Finally, your original piece looks like Guerrero to me, but the new lab grown tips do not look at all like Guerrero, so if someone unscrupulous someday obtained this specimen, they would not be able to pass it off as Guerrero.
Thanks again.
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GneissWare
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 14:16 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Matt & Jean,
You are doing a fabulous job posting great quality mineral photos. I know this is a huge amount of work, and I greatly appreciate you all taking the time to make all these posts!
Bob
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Jamison Brizendine
Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 128
Location: Northeast Ohio
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 15:37 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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| Matt_Zukowski wrote: | Jamison:
I would like to thank you for putting up that case. The synthetic quartz xtals are very cool, and it is interesting to see the results of the experimentation.
With regard to fakery, I would just like to say again that there is nothing in this case or anyone associated with it that suggests fakery to me. It’s just that this case shows improvement in the technology (at least to me), and that as this technology improves, the potential for fakery increases, and maybe we should stay tuned to this issue. Are there any other ways, besides evidence of a seed xtal, to tell this lab grown qtz from natural qtz?
Finally, your original piece looks like Guerrero to me, but the new lab grown tips do not look at all like Guerrero, so if someone unscrupulous someday obtained this specimen, they would not be able to pass it off as Guerrero.
Thanks again. |
I only donated the specimen to the case, I didn't put it up, nor did I grow any of the clusters, so I personally can't take any credit for that. Trust me I would rather be in Tucson helping him put up the case, than be here in Ohio, where it is a balmy five degrees.
Ironically, the synthetic quartz industry itself has been on the rapid decline for quite sometime. Synthetic quartz from what I understand is a niche market and only used in some optical instruments. When cheaper options become available, it furthers pushes the industry into obsolescence. When this happens there will be no more synthetic quartz, because it costs a lot of money and time for these laboratories to maintain the autoclaves. I wonder if these clusters could breathe new life into an industry that is becoming more obsolete by the day.
In terms of telling the other differences between synthetic and natural quartz, if you broke a synthetic crystal quartz and compared it to a natural one of the same size and color, you really can't tell the difference. Some of the quartz clusters might have some iron oxide and microscopic inclusions of acmite from the steel.
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Jean Sendero
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Hudson Heights, Quebec
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 19:08 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Back to the casita....here are a few more from the exhibits
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Jean Sendero
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Hudson Heights, Quebec
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 19:18 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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A few things from some dealers
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| In Cal Graeber booth. From Naica |
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| In Cal Graeber booth. From Sta Eulalia but little clear quartz to which the gypsum and rhodo are attached to, suggest more Taxco. |
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| Mineral: | Kottigite |
| Locality: | | Ojuela Mine, Mapimí, Municipio Mapimí, Durango, Mexico | |
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| Mineral: | Legrandite |
| Locality: | | Ojuela Mine, Mapimí, Municipio Mapimí, Durango, Mexico | |
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| Mineral: | pseudoboleite |
| Locality: | | Amelia Mine, Santa Rosalía (El Boleo), Boleo District, Municipio Mulegé, Baja California Sur, Mexico | |
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Jean Sendero
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Hudson Heights, Quebec
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 19:31 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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The Breast Cancer case.
Amazing testimonies of survival and several beautiful Mexican specimens. Two rhodochrosites from Santa Eulalia, one pink danburite from Charcas, a calcite on calcite from Taxco,
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| Mineral: | Rhodocrosite |
| Locality: | | Potosí Mine, Santo Domingo (Francisco Portillo), Santa Eulalia District, Municipio Aquiles Serdán, Chihuahua, Mexico | |
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| Mineral: | Rhodocrosite |
| Locality: | | Potosí Mine, Santo Domingo (Francisco Portillo), Santa Eulalia District, Municipio Aquiles Serdán, Chihuahua, Mexico | |
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| Mineral: | Calcite |
| Locality: | | Taxco de Alarcón, Municipio Taxco, Guerrero, Mexico | |
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| Mineral: | Danburite |
| Locality: | | Aurora Mine, Charcas, Municipio Charcas, San Luis Potosí, Mexico | |
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 23:49 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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At the main show again today. First, from the Natural History Museum, is what appears to be an old collection put together by Frederick Noel Ashcroft. My favorite in this case is the pink fluorite from Nollen because it is so gemmy.
Next is the Mineral Museum of Bonn case.
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2015 23:59 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Next is a case on Sucres (closed gwindels), a case from Luis Burillo, and then a cool pyrite case.
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2015 00:07 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Next is a case entitled Minerals of Russia, followed by a nice quartz case.
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2015 00:17 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Some Collector's Edge pieces and then some from Dave Bunk.
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| Hard to see it in this pict but if you zoom in to look at the xtal just below and in back of the main xtal, you can see blue light coming through. This xtal transmitting light is pretty thick. |
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2015 00:26 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Next is a case of HUGE amazonite pieces being displayed by the Dorris family and then a case from Scott Rudolph.
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Matt_Zukowski
Site Admin
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2015 00:32 Post subject: Re: Tucson Show 2015 |
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Next is a case of specimens from the Western United States.
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