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What did Goethe collect?
  
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David




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 07:19    Post subject: What did Goethe collect?  

It is well known that, among many other things, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was also a passionate mineral collector. But what did he collect?
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 07:44    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Well, he may have been familiar with Goethite !?

Or if he was not, others familiar with that mineral, were familiar with him!!!



fullsizeoutput_218.jpeg
 Mineral: Goethite on Quartz
 Locality:
Amerzgane, Ouarzazate Province, Drâa-Tafilalet Region, Morocco
 Dimensions: The needles are up to 1 cm.
 Description:
Goethite needles on Quartz
 Viewed:  4948 Time(s)

fullsizeoutput_218.jpeg



fullsizeoutput_153.jpeg
 Mineral: Goethite on Quartz
 Locality:
Amerzgane, Ouarzazate Province, Drâa-Tafilalet Region, Morocco
 Dimensions: the specimen is 11 cm with the needles up to 1 cm
 Description:
Goethite needles on Quartz
 Viewed:  4947 Time(s)

fullsizeoutput_153.jpeg


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David




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 10:15    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

From what I know goethite was named during his lifetime so I assume he was familiar with it. :)
Very nice specimen, congratulations! I have a thing for needle-shaped minerals.
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Tobi




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 12:26    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

David wrote:
It is well known that, among many other things, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was also a passionate mineral collector. But what did he collect?
Goethe wasn't just a collector, he did a lot of works in natural sciences and he even was politically involved in mining. I don't know all of what he collected, but among the incredible number of nearly 18.000 specimens (minerals, rocks, fossils) there were - of course - many samples from Germany, a lot from Austria and the Alps in general, and also from Bohemia.
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lluis




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 12:37    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Well, Taking in account that he lived in more or less same times as Lord Ferguson, he would collect same. The specimens found in Europe, that generally were bought during a Big Tour.
Strahlers in Switzerland already worked, and specimens were generally nice ones...
We know what Lord Ferguson collected, because he let his collection to BM, that later (things happen...) sold it (maybe 30 years ago...)

So, probably not a big surprise to see what Goethe collected....

With best wishes

LLuís
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Carl




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 12:41    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

A contemporary of Goethe's, Johann Georg Lenz, named the mineral after him. Although, I seem to remember that Goethite was first the name of another, closely related iron mineral.

The History of Science journal had an interesting article 20ish years ago about his mineral collection. While the collection was very valuable (I believe estimated at a third of his net worth at time of his death?), it was not comprised of pretty specimens. He built the collection for scientific and teaching purposes, and was known to be frustrated by people who wanted to see pretty minerals.

One of our speakers at Rochester Mineralogical Symposium in the last ten years included information on Goethe in his presentation, but I am drawing a blank on who it was.

Goethite is one of the primary minerals that I collect.

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Carl




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 14:14    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Carl wrote:
Although, I seem to remember that Goethite was first the name of another, closely related iron mineral.


Lepidocrocite, which is dimorphous with Goethite.

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Peter Lemkin




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PostPosted: Apr 05, 2020 23:10    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Very good article on this can be found here:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4028099?read-now=1&seq=1
(link normalized by FMF)

It even includes a photo of one of his mineral cabinets and list of some specimens! It goes into some of his suites and interests in minerals too.
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Gerhard Brandstetter




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PostPosted: Apr 06, 2020 04:43    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Goethe wrote several articles and letters on geology, mining and minerals. Since short time I own two books: "Schriften zur Geologie und Mineralogie - 1770-1818" and "Schriften zur Geologie, Mineralogie und Meteorologie" with his own records. Up to now I did not have the time to read it but at least I had a closer look. Parts of it seems to be a diary.

He describes lots of interesting things from his area: e.g. a burning coal mine in Dudweiler, mine visits in Jachymov and other places, his travels to Naples and his observations on Vesuvius mtn. the famous Calcite/Aragonite sinters in Karlovy Vary and much more.

What I love most is his excellent article on Feldspar twins from the surroundings of Karlsbad/Karlovy Vary. Among other landscapes and geological sketches there is an amazing drawing of the famous Karlsbad twins he collected. Without photography Goethe also was a talented Illustrator!

If you are Interested I can add some photos of minerals from my collection - all are the species and from localities he mentioned.



IMG_20200406_091203.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  4729 Time(s)

IMG_20200406_091203.jpg



IMG_20200406_091220.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  4733 Time(s)

IMG_20200406_091220.jpg



IMG_20200406_091353.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  4731 Time(s)

IMG_20200406_091353.jpg



Orthoklas Karlsbad 52 mm Goethe IMG_3120 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Orthoclase
 Locality:
Karlovy Vary (Carlsbad), Karlovy Vary District, Karlovy Vary Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 52 mm
 Description:
A carlsbad twin from the type locality, photographed on the article where Goethe describes this find.
 Viewed:  4730 Time(s)

Orthoklas Karlsbad 52 mm Goethe IMG_3120 fc.jpg


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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Apr 06, 2020 12:05    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Gerhard Brandstetter wrote:
...If you are Interested i can add some photos of minerals from my collection - all are the species and from localities he mentioned.

Please!
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Gerhard Brandstetter




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PostPosted: Apr 06, 2020 13:41    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Now I want to show you some specimens from my collection. All are from localities that Goethe described. I will only post minerals that he mentioned from these places. Some are even self collected. Also Goethe used to collect here!

Will be continued…...



Augit Vlci Hora, Cernosin, SW-Böhmen CZ 20 mm IMG_9559 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Augite
 Locality:
Vlčí hora, Černošín, Plzeň Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 20 mm
 Description:
From 1823, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe dealt with the rocks of the Bohemian volcano as part of his mineralogical studies. Both the large augite and the amphibole (kaersutite) were of particular interest to him. [1] Since Goethe was particularly interested in the formation of these idiomorphic crystals, the chemist Johann Wolfgang Döbereiner carried out melting tests on these crystals in Jena. [2] Frédéric Soret was also commissioned by Goethe to morphologically characterize the Augite and Amphibole des Wolfbergs. His results were then published in a journal published by Goethe (On Natural Science in general) in French under the title Catalog Raisonné des variétés d´Amphiboles et Pyroxène rapportées de Bohème par S.E. Monsieur le Ministre d´État de Goethe. This work was translated into German and published by Hans Prescher. [3]
 Viewed:  4652 Time(s)

Augit  Vlci Hora, Cernosin, SW-Böhmen CZ 20 mm IMG_9559 fc.jpg



Kaersutit Vlci Hora, Cernosin, SW-Böhmen CZ 75 mm IMG_9553 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Kaersutite
 Locality:
Vlčí hora, Černošín, Plzeň Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 75 mm
 Description:
Wolfsberg is the German name for this locality and Hornblende was the old name for this species.
 Viewed:  4654 Time(s)

Kaersutit Vlci Hora, Cernosin, SW-Böhmen CZ 75 mm IMG_9553 fc.jpg



Kassiterit Horni Slavkov, Errzgebirge, CZ 7 cm IMG_3684 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Cassiterite
 Locality:
Horní Slavkov (Schlaggenwald), Karlovy Vary Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 75 mm
 Description:
Goethe mentioned "Zinngraupen" from Schlaggenwald (Horni Slavkov)
 Viewed:  4653 Time(s)

Kassiterit Horni Slavkov, Errzgebirge, CZ 7 cm IMG_3684 fc.jpg



Calcit Karlovy Vary, CZ 77 mm IMG_6623 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Aragonite/Calcite
 Locality:
Karlovy Vary (Carlsbad), Karlovy Vary District, Karlovy Vary Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 77 mm
 Description:
Goethe travelled several times to Karlsbad. He loved the spa and the talks with prominent mineralogists, geologists and collectors. "Sprudelstein" was very often mentioned!
 Viewed:  4654 Time(s)

Calcit Karlovy Vary, CZ 77 mm IMG_6623 fc.jpg


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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: Apr 06, 2020 16:27    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Here's a specimen of goethite on smoky quartz with microcline from the Pikes Peak Granite, Crystal Peak district, Teller County, Colorado.


IMG_9172 (2).JPG
 Locality:
Crystal Peak area, Teller County, Colorado, USA
 Dimensions: 6 cm
 Description:
 Viewed:  4606 Time(s)

IMG_9172 (2).JPG



IMG_9176 (2).JPG
 Locality:
Crystal Peak area, Teller County, Colorado, USA
 Dimensions: 6 cm
 Description:
 Viewed:  4610 Time(s)

IMG_9176 (2).JPG


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Gerhard Brandstetter




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PostPosted: Apr 09, 2020 14:01    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

One of the main interests of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe was the tin formation. After visiting the classic mines in Horni Slavkov (Schlaggenwald), Graupen (Krupka), Altenberg, Zinnwald (Cinovec) he wrote fascinating articles about the "Greisen" formation and the tin mines. He also obtained Cassiterite from Cornwall, Asia and other places. All the minerals i can show you here are mentioned in his records.

Will be continued



Apatit Martin Krupka Böhmen BB 25 mm IMG_4211.jpg
 Mineral: Fluorapatite
 Locality:
Martin Mine, Krupka, Krusné Hory Mts., Ústí Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: FOV 25 mm x 17 mm
 Description:
Exact locality is Martin mine
 Viewed:  4356 Time(s)

Apatit Martin Krupka Böhmen BB 25 mm IMG_4211.jpg



Wolframit Zinnwald-Cinovec, Böhmen-Sachsen, CZ-BRD 52 mm IMG_0027 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Ferberite (wolframite)
 Locality:
Cinovec/Zinnwald, Erzgebirge, Krusné Hory Mts., Ústí Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: 52 x 37 x 37 mm
 Description:
During the 18th century this mineral was very unwanted for the miners
 Viewed:  4355 Time(s)

Wolframit Zinnwald-Cinovec, Böhmen-Sachsen, CZ-BRD 52 mm IMG_0027 fc.jpg



Zinnwaldit Scheelit Zinnwald, Böhmen, BB 25 mm IMG_3143.jpg
 Mineral: Polylithionite (variety zinnwaldite)
 Locality:
Cinovec/Zinnwald, Erzgebirge, Krusné Hory Mts., Ústí Region, Bohemia, Czech Republic
 Dimensions: FOV 25 x 17 mm
 Description:
Goethe mentioned mica
 Viewed:  4354 Time(s)

Zinnwaldit Scheelit Zinnwald, Böhmen, BB 25 mm IMG_3143.jpg


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Sante Celiberti




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PostPosted: Apr 09, 2020 16:13    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

Congratulations, Gerhard.

This is a very fascinating and beautiful way of collecting.

Warm greetings from Tuscany:
Sante
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Gerhard Brandstetter




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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2020 08:42    Post subject: Re: What did Goethe collect?  

From September 1786 till May 1788 Goethe visited Italy and described it in his travel diary "Italienische Reise". As a souvenir he brought back a large selection of rocks and minerals. Here are some similar specimen from my collection

Will be continued



Alunit Allumiere, Tolfa mtns., Rom, Lazio, Italien 15 mm IMG_9047 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Alunite
 Locality:
Allumiere Quarries, Allumiere, Tolfa Mountains, Metropolitan City of Rome Capital, Lazio, Italy
 Dimensions: 15 x 10 mm
 Description:
Some of the alum stones that he collected has been gifts for his friends.
 Viewed:  4013 Time(s)

Alunit Allumiere, Tolfa mtns., Rom, Lazio, Italien 15 mm IMG_9047 fc.jpg



Goethe,_Die_Solfatara_von_Pozzuoli,_1787.jpg
 Locality:
Solfatara di Pozzuoli, Pozzuoli, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Description:
The Solfatara in Pozzzuoli - a drawing done by Goethe
 Viewed:  4012 Time(s)

Goethe,_Die_Solfatara_von_Pozzuoli,_1787.jpg



Schwefel Solfatara, Pozzuoli, Kampanien, Italien 49 x 34 mm fc.jpg
 Mineral: Sulphur
 Locality:
Solfatara di Pozzuoli, Pozzuoli, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 49 x 34 mm
 Description:
Sulphur crystals on a carbonized little branch - self collected
 Viewed:  4013 Time(s)

Schwefel Solfatara, Pozzuoli, Kampanien, Italien 49 x 34 mm fc.jpg



Schwefel Solfatara, Pozzuoli, Kampanien, Italien BB 22 mm IMG_9107 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Sulphur
 Locality:
Solfatara di Pozzuoli, Pozzuoli, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 22 x 15 mm
 Description:
After a deadly accident the Solfatara is closed now for visitors. This supervolcano is too dangerous. A pity…...
 Viewed:  4012 Time(s)

Schwefel Solfatara, Pozzuoli, Kampanien, Italien BB 22 mm IMG_9107 fc.jpg



Lava Vesuv, Italien 48 mm IMG_9089 fc.jpg
 Mineral: lava
 Locality:
Monte Somma, Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 48 x 35 mm
 Description:
Goethe collected several types of "Lava and Basalt" from Vesuvio. He also bought something from a "Lava dealer"
 Viewed:  4013 Time(s)

Lava Vesuv, Italien 48 mm IMG_9089 fc.jpg



Leucit Vesuv Italien 7 cm IMG_7229 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Leucite
 Locality:
Monte Somma, Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 7 cm
 Description:
The first mineral he mentioned from Vesuvius was "White garnet" - i think Leucite.
 Viewed:  4013 Time(s)

Leucit Vesuv Italien 7 cm IMG_7229 fc.jpg



Vesuvian Granat Vesuv, italien BB 15 mm IMG_6895 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Vesuvianite with Grossular
 Locality:
Monte Somma, Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: FOV 15 x 10 mm
 Description:
Perfect brown crystals of Garnets were also mentioned.
 Viewed:  4012 Time(s)

Vesuvian Granat Vesuv, italien BB 15 mm IMG_6895 fc.jpg



Vesuvian Vesuv Italien 75 mm IMG_7126 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Vesuvianite
 Locality:
Monte Somma, Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 75 x 55 mm
 Description:
He also collected "Brown crystals with mica" This could be one of the first reports for Vesuvianite.
 Viewed:  4014 Time(s)

Vesuvian Vesuv Italien 75 mm IMG_7126 fc.jpg



Vesuvian Vesuv, Italien 55 mm IMG_7111 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Vesuvianite
 Locality:
Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 55 x 45 mm
 Description:
Specimen from ex Melk monastery collection in Lower Austria. Second label is from Josef Erber (1824-1882)
 Viewed:  4014 Time(s)

Vesuvian Vesuv, Italien 55 mm IMG_7111 fc.jpg



Grossular Pargasit Vesuv Italien 6 cm IMG_7085 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Grossulare
 Locality:
Monte Somma, Somma-Vesuvius Complex, Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy
 Dimensions: 60 x 43 mm
 Description:
Monte Somma-Vusuvius erupted in 1786 but Goethe climbed the mountain to the edge of the crater. He recorded how ashes and stones flew through the air
 Viewed:  4013 Time(s)

Grossular Pargasit Vesuv Italien 6 cm IMG_7085 fc.jpg



Jaspis Giuliana, Sizilien, Italien 13,7 x 7,5 cm IMG_9088 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Quartz (variety jasper)
 Locality:
Giuliana, Metropolitan City of Palermo Province, Sicily, Italy
 Dimensions: 14 x 7,5 cm
 Description:
During his stay in Sicily Goethe collected several samples of Jasper from various places. During his time Giuliana was well known for this material.
 Viewed:  4012 Time(s)

Jaspis Giuliana, Sizilien, Italien 13,7 x 7,5 cm IMG_9088 fc.jpg



Ruinenmarmor Florenz Italien 95 mm IMG_7036 fc.jpg
 Mineral: Limestone (variety paesina)
 Locality:
Florence, Metropolitan City of Florence, Tuscany, Italy
 Dimensions: 95 x 63 mm
 Description:
During the 18.th century "Paesina" was very popular for decoration, even for furniture
 Viewed:  4012 Time(s)

Ruinenmarmor Florenz Italien 95 mm IMG_7036 fc.jpg


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