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minsur
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 45
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 Posted: Jan 27, 2022 10:06 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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Unfortunately, the color of these quartzes is of anthropogenic origin. The surface of the tips is somehow porous with micro clay inclusions. Acid cleaning leads to alteration of the clay, turning it yellowish-orange. Some specimens lose their color completely after a (too) excessive acid bath, so a bit of experience in this kind of "cotor treatment".is needed.
By the way an extremely nice reference sample of the saying "a rock is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it". I think two figures instead of five would be far more appropriate;-)
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John S. White
Site Admin
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1298
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 10:52 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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I would just like to thank Bob Kerr for his excellent coverage of a lot of what is new in Tucson this year. Unfortunately, I will miss the show out of concerns over Omicron, so Bob's postings help.
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John S. White
aka Rondinaire |
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Joseph DOliveira
Joined: 29 Jan 2012
Posts: 311
Location: Hanmer, Ontario
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 10:56 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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I would also like to thank Bob for his show posts. Like John, I will also be missing the show this year and will attend vicariously through Bob's posts.
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Joseph D'Oliveira
Hanmer, Ontario
Canada |
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 16:04 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| John S. White wrote: | | I would just like to thank Bob Kerr for his excellent coverage of a lot of what is new in Tucson this year. Unfortunately, I will miss the show out of concerns over Omicron, so Bob's postings help. |
Rondinaire and Joseph - glad you are enjoying these mini-reports - more to come. Since I'm not really in the mineral acquisition mode I have much more time to do these reports.
bob
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 16:22 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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I ALWAYS love to stop by the room of Robert and Stephanie Snyder's Stonetrust dealership. They may not always have lots of new items, but they seem to come up with some truly unique and one-of-a-kind pieces.
I'll let the attached photos speak for themselves.
bob
| Mineral: | Aquamarine |
| Description: |
| This is a rare group of Aquas from Erongo. Usually, these kinda keep to themselves and grow in single crystals - but this is a unique group of them similar to Pakistani Aquas. |
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36998 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Emerald |
| Locality: | | Kagem Mine, Kafubu, Ndola, Ndola District, Copperbelt Province, Zambia |  |
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| Description: |
| TALL!! very tall! and unique locality. An amazing specimen. |
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37131 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Quartz |
| Description: |
| I guess this is a scepter - but a very different form. |
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36998 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Tourmaline |
| Locality: | | Pederneira claim, São José da Safira, Governador Valadares, Vale do Rio Doce, Minas Gerais, Brazil | |
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| Description: |
| OK - anyone ever seen anything like this? Rubellite cross both double terminated. Robert said it is repaired but both pieces "snapped" right into place. Pretty amazing. |
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37036 Time(s) |
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 16:33 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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New in one of the Russian rooms (they did not have signage at the front door - as a matter of fact only a few dealers had signage telling you who's in this room) are Natrolites in a very blocky form and a pseudomorph I am not familiar with: Calcite after Ikaite (?).
bob
| Mineral: | Natrolite |
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21660 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Natrolite |
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21682 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Calcite after Ikaite |
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21640 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Calcite after Ikaite |
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21674 Time(s) |
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 16:47 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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For years brothers Paolo and Carlos Vasconcelos had HTCC rooms (next to each other) and also tents displaying their wonderful Brazilian minerals. The work now falls to Paolo's son who had a huge room in the "F" Building at Min City - YES! there is a "F" Building.
I didn't notice much in the way of new items, but it seems the prices are similar to years past - bucking a trend of much higher prices typically observed over the show.
bob
| Mineral: | Various |
| Description: |
| Vasconcelos Minerals room in the "F" Building |
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21288 Time(s) |
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| Description: |
| Vasconcelos Minerals room in the "F" Building |
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21336 Time(s) |
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 17:13 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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I stopped by the old La Fuente Restaurant which now houses the Jewel Tunnel Imports dealership - originally the domain the the the late and great Rock Currier. They were handing out full color brochures announcing the next auction of Rock's top end rocks.
The previewing of this "Part 2 Auction" starts this Saturday Jan 29 and the Auction is on Feb 7.
I thought I'd post some of the pages for those of you who can't be here. It includes a nice write-up on Rock.
Enjoy,
bob
| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21281 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21302 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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| Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21287 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21289 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21264 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21278 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21273 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Rock Currier Auction Brochure |
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21291 Time(s) |
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 27, 2022 18:07 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| minsur wrote: | | Unfortunately, the color of these quartzes is of anthropogenic origin. ) |
Are you certain of the anthropogenic origin? I've searched quite a bit and found a mindat post by John Rakovan who disputes this:
https://www.mindat.org/mesg-446817.html
A large source of these is Pachamama Minerals and they have stated it is Halloysite inclusions and that keeping them in Oxalic too long eliminates the yellow.
bob
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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 5070
Location: Barcelona
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 09:52 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| bob kerr wrote: | | minsur wrote: | | Unfortunately, the color of these quartzes is of anthropogenic origin. ) |
Are you certain of the anthropogenic origin? I've searched quite a bit and found a mindat post by John Rakovan who disputes this:
https://www.mindat.org/mesg-446817.html
A large source of these is Pachamama Minerals and they have stated it is Halloysite inclusions and that keeping them in Oxalic too long eliminates the yellow.
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Recommended reading: Quartz and Humboldtine? from Colombia
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Bergur_E_Sigurdarson
Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Posts: 148
Location: Paipa, Colombia
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 10:16 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| Jordi Fabre wrote: | | bob kerr wrote: | | minsur wrote: | | Unfortunately, the color of these quartzes is of anthropogenic origin. ) |
Are you certain of the anthropogenic origin? I've searched quite a bit and found a mindat post by John Rakovan who disputes this:
https://www.mindat.org/mesg-446817.html
A large source of these is Pachamama Minerals and they have stated it is Halloysite inclusions and that keeping them in Oxalic too long eliminates the yellow.
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Recommended reading: Quartz and Humboldtine? from Colombia |
Attached is a photo taken in the back of a dealer in Muzo, some years back, when these were just starting to appear on the market.
Oxalic acid bath for who knows how long to remove limonite crust and matrix.
(Jordi or an admin, feel free to move this post or copy it to a more appropriate location if needed)
| Mineral: | Quartz |
| Locality: | | Cabiche, Quípama, Boyacá Department, Colombia | |
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| Dimensions: | 100 litre barrel |
| Description: |
| Quartz from Quipama being "treated" in Muzo |
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20967 Time(s) |
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minsur
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 14:18 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| bob kerr wrote: | | minsur wrote: | | Unfortunately, the color of these quartzes is of anthropogenic origin. ) |
Are you certain of the anthropogenic origin? I've searched quite a bit and found a mindat post by John Rakovan who disputes this:
https://www.mindat.org/mesg-446817.html
A large source of these is Pachamama Minerals and they have stated it is Halloysite inclusions and that keeping them in Oxalic too long eliminates the yellow.
bob |
In the Munich Show report 2021, p. 4, you will find an excellent explication by Carles (in Spanish) .
I really appeciate your posts - thank you very much and please keep going on!.
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 16:52 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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| minsur wrote: |
In the Munich Show report 2021, p. 4, you will find an excellent explication by Carles (in Spanish) ..
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I looked up Carles's post referred to by minsur - a rough translation:
"I would like to highlight something related to the Colombian Quartz that has proliferated in recent times and that have been "baptized" as "Mango Quartz",
In Rocks & Minerals magazine there is an article by John Rakovan where he explains it well. In a personal conversation with Alfredo Petrov, during the last edition of the Sants Fair, he explained that these Quartz have micro-pipes that go into the prism. When they were filled with mud there were two possible explanations, or mixture of both, about the origin of that yellowish color in the termination of the crystals. The mud itself would have been embedded in the glass through these small gutters and, in addition, during the process of cleaning the Quartz and the consequent use of acids, the same mud would have reacted with the acid causing the "inclusions" of the reaction within the crystals.
With all this I intend to point out that, finally, someone labels those Quartzes as what they really are, Quartz. Such wisdom is appreciated."
So - let me try to provide a possible explanation that I think allows John and Carles/Alfredo and reputable dealers all to be correct:
1 - Somehow, mother nature allowed some quartz crystal to grow with micro "channels" and they only are present towards the tips.
2 - Many (most?) crystals grow in the presence of limonite and these "channels" also grow in the presence of this iron
3- when the quartz is dug from the ground, it is encased in the iron and miners have found that soaking in oxalic will clean the iron from the quartz and raise their value.
4 - if the quartz is removed from the oxalic and rinsed AT THE RIGHT TIME, the iron in the "channels" remains and shows the yellow color (and appears as "fibers" included in the quartz.)
5 - if the quartzes are left in the oxalic for a long enough time, even the "channels" are cleared of iron when rinsed
If the above is true, then there's really no sinister intent involved - some quartzes just come out of the oxalic with yellow tips.
You will note that many of these "mango" quartzes still have some iron in or on their matrix - it is very powdery and rubs off on your fingers - UGH! So, you couldn't fault dealers - like Pachamama - from cleaning them again with fresh oxalic and finding that the additional bath has cleaned out the micro "channels" effectively ruining the specimen. (To no one's surprise Pachamama does no further oxalic cleaning after they lost thousands of $ cleaning yellow tipped quartz that simply turned into quartz.)
What caused the micro "channels" in the first place is another interesting issue.
comment and other thoughts are welcome,
bob
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 638
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 17:04 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 |
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I went over to the Riverpark Inn today (The Pueblo Show) looking for some dealers that usually hang out in the annex, but the annex was closed - nobody home.
But Cristalli was in their usual booth and had some excellent Iranian wulfenites. Yes - from Iran. I'll let the photos do the talking.
bob
| Mineral: | Cristali booth at the Riverpark Inn |
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20773 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Wulfenite |
| Locality: | | Ahmad Abad, Yazd Province, Iran | |
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21130 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Wulfenite |
| Locality: | | Ahmad Abad, Yazd Province, Iran | |
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20807 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Wulfenite |
| Locality: | | Ahmad Abad, Yazd Province, Iran | |
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20787 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Wulfenite |
| Locality: | | Ahmad Abad, Yazd Province, Iran | |
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| Viewed: |
20765 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Wulfenite |
| Locality: | | Ahmad Abad, Yazd Province, Iran | |
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| Viewed: |
20769 Time(s) |
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Bergur_E_Sigurdarson
Joined: 21 Dec 2017
Posts: 148
Location: Paipa, Colombia
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| Posted: Jan 28, 2022 17:40 Post subject: Re: Tucson Shows 2022 - Mango stuff |
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| bob kerr wrote: | | minsur wrote: |
In the Munich Show report 2021, p. 4, you will find an excellent explication by Carles (in Spanish) ..
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I looked up Carles's post referred to by minsur - a rough translation:
"I would like to highlight something related to the Colombian Quartz that has proliferated in recent times and that have been "baptized" as "Mango Quartz",
In Rock & Minerals magazine there is an article by John Rakovan where he explains it well. In a personal conversation with Alfredo Petrov, during the last edition of the Sants Fair, he explained that these Quartz have micro-pipes that go into the prism. When they were filled with mud there were two possible explanations, or mixture of both, about the origin of that yellowish color in the termination of the crystals. The mud itself would have been embedded in the glass through these small gutters and, in addition, during the process of cleaning the Quartz and the consequent use of acids, the same mud would have reacted with the acid causing the "inclusions" of the reaction within the crystals.
With all this I intend to point out that, finally, someone labels those Quartzes as what they really are, Quartz. Such wisdom is appreciated."
So - let me try to provide a possible explanation that I think allows John and Carles/Alfredo and reputable dealers all to be correct:
1 - Somehow, mother nature allowed some quartz crystal to grow with micro "channels" and they only are present towards the tips.
2 - Many (most?) crystals grow in the presence of limonite and these "channels" also grow in the presence of this iron
3- when the quartz is dug from the ground, it is encased in the iron and miners have found that soaking in oxalic will clean the iron from the quartz and raise their value.
4 - if the quartz is removed from the oxalic and rinsed AT THE RIGHT TIME, the iron in the "channels" remains and shows the yellow color (and appears as "fibers" included in the quartz.)
5 - if the quartzes are left in the oxalic for a long enough time, even the "channels" are cleared of iron when rinsed
If the above is true, then there's really no sinister intent involved - some quartzes just come out of the oxalic with yellow tips.
You will note that many of these "mango" quartzes still have some iron in or on their matrix - it is very powdery and rubs off on your fingers - UGH! So, you couldn't fault dealers - like Pachamama - from cleaning them again with fresh oxalic and finding that the additional bath has cleaned out the micro "channels" effectively ruining the specimen. (To no one's surprise Pachamama does no further oxalic cleaning after they lost thousands of $ cleaning yellow tipped quartz that simply turned into quartz.)
What caused the micro "channels" in the first place is another interesting issue.
comment and other thoughts are welcome,
bob |
From the pieces I have seen and examined here in Colombia I can try and answer some of your 5 points
1 - Somehow, mother nature allowed some quartz crystal to grow with micro "channels" and they only are present towards the tips.
....I have seen quartzes with those fibrous looking possible micro-channels in other parts and not always extending to the tip, tho that seems more common in those found in Quipama
2 - Many (most?) crystals grow in the presence of limonite and these "channels" also grow in the presence of this iron
I have some pieces that weren't totally encrusted in limonite when extracted but do have pseudomorphs of dolomite/siderite/calcite rhombs into limonite
...I thus think that the encrusted ones were encased in those minerals later "dissolved" into limonite that penetrated the channels already in the quartz, most likely while still in the ground
3- when the quartz is dug from the ground, it is encased in the iron and miners have found that soaking in oxalic will clean the iron from the quartz and raise their value.
When the encrusted pieces were cleaned, I expect the miners and some of the local dealers were using as little oxalic as they could to clean the surface
...along came some foreigners hailing this yellow tipped result as a magnificent "humboldtine" inclusion unique find and prices here in Colombia skyrocketed as first pieces hit the market in the rest of the world.... thus further encouraging the locals to only let the oxalic treatment go as far as to make the surface clean and not penetrate all the way in
4 - if the quartz is removed from the oxalic and rinsed AT THE RIGHT TIME, the iron in the "channels" remains and shows the yellow color (and appears as "fibers" included in the quartz.)
the "fibrous" channels show as whitish when not filled with the limonite that they came encrusted with on the outside... that may have seeped further in during shorter oxalic treatment, that further treatment may have also cleaned back out
5 - if the quartzes are left in the oxalic for a long enough time, even the "channels" are cleared of iron when rinsed
....I as I haven't seen many with whitish tips here in Colombia, more of them are whitish if the "fibrous" channels don't reach the tip.... I wonder that just the oxalic treatment alone isn't enough to clean the pipes, but later treatment may have utilized ultrasonic as well, that would have "helped" in removing the limonite residue from the open-ended pieces
...I know this is a lot of speculation, but all based on observation both over time and seeing what I encounter here in Colombia (both specimens and the types that are selling)
P.S. the ones with open "fibrous channels" at the tip range very much in their colour... from deep-rusty to the seemingly most popular intense yellow... fading all the way back into almost bluish-white wisps.
See also my two specimens posted in my collection here
https://www.topminerals.info/index.php?level=picture&id=136511&searchterms=&searchauthor=Bergur_E_Sigurdarson
https://www.topminerals.info/index.php?level=picture&id=136512&searchterms=&searchauthor=Bergur_E_Sigurdarson
| Mineral: | Quartz, limonite (after ferrous dolomite/siderite/calcite?), Albite |
| Locality: | | Cabiche, Quípama, Boyacá Department, Colombia | |
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| Dimensions: | 28 x 15 x 6 cm appx |
| Description: |
Albite is a visual ID guess
Quartz sprays are nearly 5cm across, some with minor wisps
Rhombs of limonite in various stages of degradation to nearly 3 cm |
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20746 Time(s) |
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| Mineral: | Quartz, limonite (after ferrous dolomite/siderite/calcite?), Albite |
| Locality: | | Cabiche, Quípama, Boyacá Department, Colombia | |
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| Dimensions: | 28 x 15 x 6 cm appx |
| Description: |
Slight closer look
Albite is a visual ID guess
Quartz sprays are nearly 5cm across, some with minor wisps
Rhombs of limonite in various stages of degradation to nearly 3 cm |
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| Viewed: |
20722 Time(s) |
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