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Red fluorescence in Fluorite
  
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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 14:42    Post subject: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

This is a question for those of you who are from Spain or like Spanish minerals. I recently saw a red-fluorescing fluorite for sale, labeled "Berbes, Spain". The fluorescence is very similar to that of the better known Ojuela mine fluorites. Because red-fluorescing fluorite is so rare, and because I had never before seen a specimen from Berbes, I wondered whether this is a familiar find that I just had not encountered before, or whether this specimen might be mis-labeled.
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Jesse Fisher




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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 15:12    Post subject: Re: red fluorescence in fluorite  

I have a good number of Spanish fluorites from Asturias in our collection, and the only ones that show any fluorescence are a couple of yellow fluorites from the Moscona and Villabona mines. The color under LWUV is a pale fleshy pink, nothing that I would call "red" and certainly nothing like the Mina Ojuela fluorite. All the Berbes area fluorites that I have show no fluorescence at all. Do you have a photo of the specimen?
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monicaiRocks




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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 15:18    Post subject: Re: red fluorescence in fluorite  

I can't think of any I've seen off the top of my head, but there's an article on chicagorocks dot org by Robert Beadle that says....


Red fluorescence in fluorite is equally as rare as yellow. I know of only seven locations with fluorite that fluoresces red. Perhaps the most well known of these is Berber Asturias, Spain. The purple-violet cubes from this region glow cherry red upon exposure to long wave ultraviolet light.(1, 9) Red fluorescence in fluorite has also been reported from Celles, in the Namur province of Belgium.(11) A specimen of "Blue John", a type of banded fluorite from England, has exhibited a zone of red fluorescence. The location given was Treak Cliff near the Odin mine in Castletown, Derbyshire.(10) Mexico has three locations for this rare occurrence — Sonora,(4, 13) Ojuela mine in Mapini, Durango(14) and Mina El Tule Melchor Muzquiz, Coahuila.(9, 10) But of these fluorites, only a small percentage fluoresce blue, and an even smaller percentage fluoresce red. Our United States has two locations for red fluorescence in fluorite. The Burney mine in the Chinati mountains in Presidio Co., Texas has produced at least one specimen.(12) The other location is the Griffith mine in Harden Co., Illinois. Specimens from there may be non-fluorescent, blue fluorescent, red fluorescent, or even yellow with red fluorescent. It has been suspected that the rare earth elements europium along with samarium are responsible for red fluorescence. For the Griffith mine, iron dissolved in oil along with europium may be the cause.(15)



(I have very different opinions on which is the most well-known, but that's neither here nor there...)

Did see one on Minerain with what I would call more pink than red (if we're thinking of "Ojuela red" as comparison) and there are some on eBay, but it's a much pinker/purplier, murkier hue.
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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 15:36    Post subject: Re: red fluorescence in fluorite  

I have attached a photo from the seller, who is on eBay. Of course, I have no idea how accurate the intensity or the color is. The specimen sold while I dithered about buying it (?!)
Yes, I've seen the specimens on eBay for sale by minerain, and those are nowhere nearly as intensely colored as this one.



Berbes fluorite.jpg
 Mineral: Fluorite
 Description:
Specimen is about 9 cm across
 Viewed:  6785 Time(s)

Berbes fluorite.jpg


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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 16:11    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in fluorite  

Yes, is relatively known from the area of Berbes named "Los Cobayos" (aka "La Paredona") but in all the ones I've seen the color is a kind of pale red, not intense red.
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Paul Bordovsky




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PostPosted: May 03, 2020 17:55    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

The deeper red color may be a result of the light source. LW 365 presumes one of the Convoy or Fyrefly flashlights with the LED chip. The reflector in these type of lights highly focuses the beam and makes the color more intense. I have no experience with the Berbes Fluorites, but the intensity of the Mexican Fluorites is enhanced. On Bob's posted specimen notice how the large cube is intensely colored, but the cubes on the periphery are much less intense. Here is one of my specimens.


P1018152 copy.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  6704 Time(s)

P1018152 copy.jpg



P1018138 copy.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  6720 Time(s)

P1018138 copy.jpg


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Josele




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PostPosted: May 05, 2020 16:21    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

Berbes sample with a moderated blue fluorescence concentrated at the edges and a slight red fluorescence in some interior layers:


P1210462.jpg
 Mineral: Fluorite
 Locality:
Berbes mining area, Berbes, Ribadesella, Comarca Oriente, Asturias, Principality of Asturias, Spain
 Dimensions: 7 x 4.5 x 2.5 cm
 Description:
Activator of red fluorescence in fluorite seems to be Sm replacing Ca.

As the more common blue fluorescence due to Eu use to be stronger, it easily quenches the red one.

Under LW UV (Convoy 3W Nichia 365 nm LED)
 Viewed:  6602 Time(s)

P1210462.jpg



P1210480.jpg
 Mineral: Fluorite
 Locality:
Berbes mining area, Berbes, Ribadesella, Comarca Oriente, Asturias, Principality of Asturias, Spain
 Dimensions: 7 x 4,5 x 2,5 cm
 Description:
Here under natural light:
 Viewed:  6646 Time(s)

P1210480.jpg


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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: Jun 26, 2022 11:22    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

Here is a red-fluorescing fluorite that I recently purchased from a dealer in Pakistan. It is described as coming from the Kharan District, Balochistan, Pakistan.


IMG_0512 (4).JPG
 Mineral: Fluorite
 Locality:
Kharan District, Balochistan (Baluchistan), Pakistan
 Dimensions: 10.5x8.2x6.0 cm
 Description:
 Viewed:  962 Time(s)

IMG_0512 (4).JPG



IMG_0515 (2).JPG
 Mineral: Fluorite
 Locality:
Kharan, Kharan District, Balochistan (Baluchistan), Pakistan
 Dimensions: 10.5x8.2x6.0 cm
 Description:
Photo taken with 365 nm Convoy S2+.
 Viewed:  962 Time(s)

IMG_0515 (2).JPG


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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Jun 26, 2022 14:06    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

Looks more like La Collada, to me

Josele wrote:
Berbes sample with a moderated blue fluorescence concentrated at the edges and a slight red fluorescence in some interior layers:
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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: Jun 26, 2022 17:58    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

Hi, James, I bought it directly from a Pakistani dealer, so it seems unlikely that they imported it and then sold it as local. But, of course, odd things happen??
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Jun 27, 2022 03:54    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

Bob

I meant the Josele one from 'Berbes', not yours - I did not spot that that was an old post I had missed in 2020

Sorry

James

Bob Carnein wrote:
Hi, James, I bought it directly from a Pakistani dealer, so it seems unlikely that they imported it and then sold it as local. But, of course, odd things happen??
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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: Jun 27, 2022 10:38    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

My apologies--I was in a hurry and didn't notice you were responding to a different post.
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Josele




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PostPosted: Jun 28, 2022 17:51    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

James Catmur wrote:
Looks more like La Collada, to me
Josele wrote:
Berbes sample with a moderated blue fluorescence concentrated at the edges and a slight red fluorescence in some interior layers:


James, from long time ago I had this specimen labeled as from La Collada but after post it in the Spanish side I was kindly corrected by a very reliable person. Please see: https://www.foro-minerales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=141455#141455

Returning to the topic at hand, this red fluorescence under long wave is amazing in a Pakistani fluorite, which usually have a weak bluish fluorescence. It recalls the fluorescence of Mina Ojuela fluorite.
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Bob Carnein




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PostPosted: Jun 29, 2022 08:43    Post subject: Re: Red fluorescence in Fluorite  

I agree that this Pakistani fluorite is pretty impressive. However, there is a downside. After I bought it, I saw a specimen for sale on Etsy suggesting it was heat treated. I wondered whether anyone on the Forum had information on whether this is true. If so, are other fluorites susceptible to similar treatment?
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